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MFD MFD v2.06 GS Filter + GS Zone

Discussion in 'Signum MFT & Signum MFD (VLF Mode)' started by matteotgv, Jun 15, 2019.

  1. matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Hi guys,

    I am struggling to write the Romanian user manual of the MFD for our Romanian clients.

    Well, the MFT's user manual that I have in English is quite a joke. In many portions it looks like Google Translate did the work. It is almost unusable due to poor EN translation and some matters lacking and some things that are different.

    It's a pity the manufacturer did not invest into having a professionally translated EN user manual like all other important manufacturers do for all their products.

    PLEASE: I need someone possessing a really good knowledge of English or French to enlighten me.

    I've read other topics here relates to this GS Filter's odyssey. Not really useful because:

    a. In most cases, those who gave the explanations were not really skilled in English. If you think in Russian and write in English, it will not be the best way to generate expert communications and vice versa.

    b. The values of the MFD's v2.06 software for GS Filter and GS Zone are different than those of the previous versions, such as:

    1. GS Filter: off/1-80 in MFD v2.06 as opposed to 90 in v2.05 --- why this 80 and not -90 to +90??
    2. GS Zone: 0-80 in MFD v2.06 --- same story

    What are those settings exactly doing and how are they doing what they're doing? I understand these filter ground signals but they are something extremely mathematical and like high engineering...

    I think that, in his proud pursuit of making a professional product, the manufacturer complicated the machine too much and made it too secluded. One must not forget that at least 90% of world's detectorists are the hobby oriented ones. And about the others that are doing it for other reasons: only few percents will be able to understand and to work with something so complicated. What people want is effectiveness coupled with ease of use. And lack of ease of use seriously affects the effectiveness of such a detector in the hands of most people.

    Looking forward to detailed learnedly replies in good English.

    Best regards,
    Daniel

    toiul noptii.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  2. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    That manual was translated by USA guy and that manual is a bit outdated and contains several mistakes (since RU version contains the same mistakes). There was an idea to translate RU Signum manual into English and name it AKAForums.com manual edition but this idea was abandoned due to the lack of interest.

    @Rew Pls kindly make thread "GS (Ground Signal) Filter & GS (Ground Signal) Zone" more English.

    Start point for GS Filter and GS Zone is VDI +90 (zero). 1 step is 0,25 of 1 degree, so 4 steps is equal to 1 degree. Should GS Zone (or GS Filter) be set to 4 (1 degree), that would activate sector (+89...+90) GS Zone (or GS Filter) is active in. Pls note that GS Filter/GS Zone is mirrowed in iron zone. Thus once GS Zone (or GS Filter) is set to 4 (1 degree), sector with VDIs -90...-89 and sector with VDIs +89...+90 will be affected by GS Zone (or GS Filter) and sector with VDIs -88...+88 will be left unprocessed.

    Another example:
    Zone (or GS Filter) is set to 12, that is equal to 3 degrees, then all the signals appearing with VDIs -90...-87 and VDIs +87...+90 will be filtered, all signals appearing with VDIs -86...+86 will be left ontouched

    Can you say the same about Minelab GPX series? I think you won't say the same referring to the professional tasks GPX series are manufactured for and the guys intended to swing these Minelab machines are supposed to know how to set up GPX series.
    The same happens to Signum. More over, firmware 2.xx was long time expected by RU hunting society. The guy who implemented all these new features in firmware 2.xx is believed to be a truly highly professional and skilled metal detectorist.
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Thank you for the explanations but 4 steps = 1 deg. is valid for when the GS values ranges were 90. Now, in the MFD v2.06, they are 80 so there must be somewhat other ratio :)

    I already read the indicated topic, I found it to be not helpful enough...

    Haha, let's not go into that direction, though... This is an AKA forum and not a Minelab one so, if I start praising the GPX here, maybe some people won't like that. I have my own GPX4500 and did great things with it, many would simply not imagine what it can do in certain cases when handled by a real pro (yes, I am a real pro in GPX -- sorry for self praising but that's it). It took me 2 loooong years to truly master it (training the ears is the most complicated part, not the settings - really deep targets only generate whisper-like variations in the threshold and sometimes they give a tiny fraction of second of silence in the threshold, you need a lot of training to hear those). But the manual of the GPX is superbly wrote - everything is there, crystal clear, you just need to take your time to understand it. And it has exactly the settings it needs - nothing more, nothing less. But, until you understand that, it takes time. However, let's not compare such a cosmic PI to any cosmic VLF. No PI should have the complexity of the GPX while the MFD is more complicated than the GPX... and, with the GPX, GB-ing is piece of cake compared to the MFD :)))) Really! :))))

    PLEASE never understand I have something against MFD or AKA in general. MFD is a superb VLF but, as nothing on this planet is perfect, neither is the MFD. I like it so much in many ways and there are few things that I would have preferred to be different. It may be the best VLF available today. I am not yet sure (need to test it more) but it might just be that one... Depth is very good, target diagnose is very good but I still have some unanswered questions regarding its capabilities in mineralization. This is what matters the most to me. It it will beat there one VLF I'm thinking at right now (and I won't mention it), I will declare it as the best VLF.

    To me, the best detector would be a PI with good discrimination and capable of providing at least a slight degree of recovery speed. Neither of these is possible so I still have to decide which is the best VLF for me because the VLFs are the daily weapons while the PIs are the artillery. The VLF is the machine used to provide the clues while the PI is the one that finishes the job afterwards. Unless you are hunting for gold nuggets, working with a PI without having a VLF at hand is something that one should never ever do, so they are complementary ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019
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  4. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    What ratio do you expect? AKA told us that 1 degree is equal to 4 steps, 1 step is equal to 0,25 of a degree. 80 steps = 20 degrees. The start point for GS Filter/GS Zone is not VDI 0, but VDI -/+90. More steps added, more degrees are deducted forward VDI 0 (from VDI -/+90).

    As to mineralized grounds Sig is a bit tricky to set up.
     
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  5. pasadete

    pasadete Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    Why???? :Diablo::Mad::Negative:

    :Yes::Yes::Yes::Yes: GB is a headache :Fool:
     
  6. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    That idea is rather old and let it rest in peace.
     
  7. pasadete

    pasadete Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    IMHO:
    In Spain many users just want to turn on and search, some of us like to complicate our lives with more advanced MDs but the manual is too basic.
    As I have been reading in this forum and contrasting with what the manual says, the differences are very important or do not even appear in the manual. If we add to this that because of our culture and language there is no habit of reading-speaking in English (because we do not need it) united with certain other factors ..., the result is that the number of users in Spain of AKA is very low, as reflected in this forum in which active users of Spain can be counted with the fingers of one hand.

    At the time I did a translation of the manual from English to Spanish, the result was poor and complicated, I also translated it from Russian into Spanish and the result looked like a Sumerian hieroglyph ... This is a reason because in Spain MDs most solded are Minelab and XP, because in the Spanish forums repeat it to death, there is technical support and manual in Spanish and they are easy to use.

    English is a barrier in Spain, but in addition the English manual is also bad, it is a problem.
     
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  8. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    That is very true...
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    I only hope the bosses of AKA read this forum :) This detector will be much-much better sold if coupled with a really well done (good EN) and complete user manual. It should also be simplified a little (or have a more basic parallel menu mode, for the regular users) and it also needs a basic GB-ing procedure like the ones of Deus and Equinox (I have both and I know both really well). If they will do that, then they will sell a looot of units as the MFD has some exceptional functions and capabilities that are not found in other detectors. Some international promoting campaign will also do (but after the detector will be adapted in terms of user manual, menu and easy GB-ing).

    Coming back to the subject of the topic, if the GS filter already instates a zone, why do we also have the GS Zone setting? Or maybe I got it in a wrong way? Please keep the explanation simple and to the exact point, like you did it here:
    "AKA told us that 1 degree is equal to 4 steps, 1 step is equal to 0,25 of a degree. 80 steps = 20 degrees. "

    That was just great :)

    The short&simple question is: what is the difference between GS Filter setting and GS Zone setting?

    Please explain it like for the stupid people, not like for engineers, because any user manual has to be written in a simple, short and clear manner so that everybody can EASILY understand everything in it and everything about the described detector. Even the user manual of the GPX is easy to be understood :) (well, after 2-3 readings :))) )
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019
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  10. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    Signum MFT/MFD firmware 2.05 and later only:
    GS Filter is an additional signal processing algorithm ("Filter") that is active only in the sector you set up. It could filter false ground signals and sound good signals. GS Filter shifts VDIs of all targets clockwise.

    GS Zone kills all the signals falling in the the sector you set up. CS Zone doesn't shift VDIs at all.

    The main reason to use these 2 tools is to supress false ground signals. CS Zone is an ultimate tool to cut off all the signals (hot/cold rocks, good targets, false ground signals) within the sector. Since GS Filter shifts VDIs of all targets it's no longer recommended to be used, GS Zone is a way to go to get rid of unwanted signals
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2019 ---
    1.jpeg
    Young girl learns how to read. She is not successful though... Finally she throws book away and says: "F.ck them all! I'd rather be a prositute".

    Above illustrates that detectorist should get knowledge first in order to hunt with AKAs or choose user friendly Minelab or XP

    :Hi:

    Being a Russian you won't understand AKA manual written in Russian ;)
     
  11. pasadete

    pasadete Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    I know a lot of this MD-prostitutes :Lol:
     
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  12. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    Really?! :Mocking:
     
  13. pasadete

    pasadete Moderator Staff Member Supporter

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    You wish !:p
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Hmm, GS Filter can be stopped. I think that, when GS Filter is Off, neither GS Zone is active. I conducted some tests today in hot soil as I wanted to get more ground signals. When GS Filter was set on Off, no matter where the GS Zone was set, the detector din not suppress ground signals. When GS Filter was On (I mean, on some value whatsoever), it was visible that ground signals were more or less being filtered. Different values of the GS Zone provided different ground signals behavior. I did not stay to calculate, maybe I will do that tomorrow (we are going for a BBQ in some mountain area, along a river). However, in a nutshell, it seems the GS Zone settings do nothing unless the GS Filter is set on any other value than Off.

    Today I worked in factory program no. 3 and I played by altering all kinds of settings. I have to say that setting the GB is not that hard some people say, it only takes a little more attention. I also made some depth tests in mild and then in hot soil. The depth is truly good but not amazing. If you activate Turbo and set the other depth related settings (Gain, RT, ST, WS Volume, RT Volume) to higher levels, it gives quite many false signals but it still remains usable and it will provide significantly better depth than Deus or Equinox but there are some other VLF detectors I've worked with and they're deeper.

    HOWEVER, the target diagnose of the MFD is simply exceptional. I think it's better than V3i or CTX in this respect even if the MFD works in only one frequency at a time. And you can also easily predict the halo effect better than with any other detector. I see the MFD as a precision machine.

    Romania is full of shallow aluminium wire, this is our main issue here. Equinox, in most cases, signals that with a very stable VDI value, so you dig alu wire and get nervous quite quickly. Deus is better for those but it usually gives the same kind of instability of the VDI to some coins so you have to also dig wire in order not to loose some smaller coins! Well, with the MFD, coins are coins, wire is wire and lead hunting pellets are lead hunting pellets. And this is definitely a HUGE achievement!

    Only if the coin is very deep, then its signal and its hodograph get diluted but, anyway, one should definitely dig ALL deep targets as this is a general rule.

    So, coming back to the subject, I experienced GS Zone does nothing while GS Filter is set on Off. Am I wrong?

    P.S. Today I found a communist children's badge, Sporting Pioneer, that I was not awarded when I was a pioneer, long time ago, but it seems the MFD considered I deserve it, haha! :)

    pionier sportiv.jpg
     
  15. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    That had been until firmware 2.05 was released. Firmware 2.05 and 2.06 have GS Filter separated apart from GS Zone.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 16, 2019 ---
    I don't know if yr grounds are mineralized or light, but should yr grounds are mineralized you will benefit from economy mode and shifting frequency away from resonance mostly rather from turbo mode.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 16, 2019 ---
    No. You cannot avoid digging aluminium wire even with AKAs. Aluminium wire can imitate any target even high conductors
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Today I dug all targets. In all cases, aluminium wire did not gave the hodograph of a coin. Maybe, if the wire is coiled, like a ring or so, then, yes, most probably it will look like a coin. Fortunately, most wires are not coiled. Many times they somewhat look like a spiral but that will also give a specific "tic-tic-tic(-tic)" sound (not only "tic-tic" like the one of a very shallow small target who crosses both EM fields of a DD coil before they merge into only one EM field just a little further). As long as target diagnose is made both by eye and ear, I find there's only scarce chances for an experienced detectorist to mistake an alu wire for a coin with the MFD. At least this is what I've experienced today... Still a lot to test and analyze in the future, of course.

    However, I still can't see how GS Zone can work without the GS Filter activated.

    This is how I see things:

    GS Filter sets which ground signals to be filtered while GS Zone says in which VDI zone those signals will be filtered. But, if the GS filter is Off, then the GS Zone will not work because nobody told it what to kill.

    Am I wrong? In which way?
     
  17. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    Get yr firmware updated
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Hmm, is there a newer firmware, other than v2.06? Which one?

    I don't see any USB connector or something of the sort on the MFD. Is it done via coil's connector? I suppose the unit should be sent to the manufacturer for updates?
     
  19. SuchMuch

    SuchMuch Administrator Staff Member

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    The latest firmware is 2.06.
    Control box should be sent to AKA for an update
     
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    matteotgv

    matteotgv AKA Novice

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    Well, I already have v2.06...